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Gravity. It seems to be a pulling force...

Debate

From: "pl@infinito.it" To: janos@bioch.szote.u-szeged.hu Subject: Pushing gravity Date sent: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:55

...there are many phenomena that I do not see as they can be explained by the pushing gravity, such as the following:
- the advance of periastron of the elliptical orbits
- the symmetry of tidal motions of matter with respect to the body center
- the gravitational deflection of light near a massive body (gravitational "lensing" effect), and so on.
Because the Newton's and general relativity's gravitational theories are certainly valid and proved by a big number of experiments and evidences...

Thank you for your thoughts,

...general relativity's gravitational theories are certainly valid ..

No, surely not valid, because any action on matter can act only some kind of other matter, radiation, particles bearing some impulse and so on. The space in not a matter, like the mathematical (geometrical) plane, line, sphere or a parabolic hyperboloid. Its not matters at all.
Relativity give a good description on the seemed, the apparent reality, mediated by light, which is not the true reality just a mockery.

...and proved by a big number of experiments and evidences...

Yes, proved, that was seemed by us with the aid of light photons. But we know that the objects are not there where we see them, because its going speedy, and/or there are under influence of strong gravitational gradient.
This question peaked around problem of time dilatation, because in other fields we cannot prove what happen in the true reality. And see miracle: it is no any experimental evidence, that is the time goes in other kind manner in relativistic conditions. Why? Because the Hafele Keating experiment is simply a fraud.

There is two another, quite shorter durations experiment with aeroplanes, when was taking back the clokcs to the surface.

No else.

Any other type of experiments, where the clocks was not returned to Earth surface, the time discrepancy can be shown during flight only, including mesons, cyclotrons and so on.

The rest is a GPS. But you heard about any GPS clock was taking back to surface (USNO) ever ?????

So genaral relativity is not validated, just we histerically believes that the speed of light is a maximal speed (why? because we never sees higher speed with the aid of light, which light has a light speed?), believes that the geometry can act on the matter, and believes that we neednt take back any GPS clock, because we can see the relativistic GPS time satisfactorily, during its circulatory travel.

- the advance of periastron of the elliptical orbits
- the symmetry of tidal motions of matter with respect to the body center

This two point is quite similar in a pulling or a pushing case. Its absolutely the same condition whether a force vector push or pull a point.

- the gravitational deflection of light near a massive body (gravitational "lensing" effect)

Pushing gravity offer a physical explanation, the cause is the DVAG gradient near bodies. Relativity gives not a physical interpretation, just geometrical, its not a real causal, just a misterious geometrical explanation.

The arguments against pushing gravity, like Poincare, is ridiculous, because we do not know the features of gravitons, so we cannot predict any of features of gravitational (gradient) space.

The root of the matter, pushing gravity serve a simple, physical, real explanation of real gravity in contrast to relativity which descript the semblance (which suitable for many purpose, but hide the reality, which has significance in cosmology, black holes etc)

Janos
 


From: "WM@hotmail.com" To: janos@bioch.szote.u-szeged.hu Subject: Gravity Date sent: Wed, 12 May 2004 01:21:30 +0000

Hi Janos!
I read your article about gravity. ...my question is why should gravity be regarded as a pulling or pushing force? Didn't Einstein prove that space-time itself is warped or curved by the presence of matter? Wouldn't that mean that there is really no force ... only bent space-time fabric ... like a wrinkle in a piece of cloth? Any object would then simply move along the curvature because there is nothing else it can do without external force being applied. This is how I imagine Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.
Regards, WM

Dear W,
thank you for your reflection, and yes nearly everybody thinks so, just a small trouble that Einstein (in 1916) bent the pure, empty mathematical vacuum-space, which would generate force (acceleration of bodies). In opposite case, if gravity-field fill up the space, only in this situation we could manipulate the "space", and could be a result of an APPARENTLY curved space. This apparent bending is a result, not the cause. If the vacuum space lacking gravity (= empty), it is laughing to bend the nothing...

What if empty space is not really empty. By this I mean that it is filled with the quantum field vacuum. ...The underlying quantum field has tremendous energy....It has been recently discovered that the quantum field is causing the universe to expand at an ever-increasing rate! Anti-gravity!
OK. And where is the difference between our opinions? I say that also, punctually. The vacuum space has tremendous energy. Just the name is not Anti-gravity. IT IS THE GRAVITY.
(Did you realized that you invented the AETHER right now?)

And after that, no singularity, no need inflation, Universe need not arise from nothing (from one mathematical point), because it should never collapse into one mathematical point, no reason for that. And no philosophy. Just a new cosmology. Simple. Understandable. Physical.

Only in case of pulling gravity, Universe should emerge from one point (from nothing), need a hypothesized inflation, shoud hypothesized anti gravity somewhere far far away, not here. Should hypothesized an absurd crooked gravity emitted, which goes far away, touching a body, and pull it back. Or bending the space. No. This is only the appearance. The cause is: the gravitational (quantum field [1926], zero point energy etc) energy field flows into the barionic matter, (atoms, planets, stars etc) heating them continually.
The best examples are the black holes. Gravity streams into black hole, and at the event horizon the light stopped, like a fish is swimming opposite the flow of river.

Every other things of matters flow with gravity field streaming into the black hole. Like a vacuum cleaner sucking the air. Around the vacuum cleaner do you think space is curved?


 


John said, 2015 apr 30, 19.12: MMX is therefore a useless method.
I think MM interferometer may work, if we let it calm, no turning back and forth, just let it motionless on a table. Only the Earth rotates under the MM instrument. That case, the interferometer shows daily and yearly cycles (Héctor A. Múnera).

So, I think the horizontally rotated MM interferometer (perhaps floated in mercury) should no display any change in stripes, because its generally rotated in wrong direction !! Always, in the usual way, where the two arms compensate any change in fringes during rotation of interferometer.

The Earth knows the adequate direction of rotation !!!

What does it mean? We shoud rotate MM interferometer around an axis of one arm !!!! And not the usual way, where the rotational axis is perpendicular both arms and both arms rotates in horizontal plane around a vertical axis.

Since the equipment is floating in mercury it can only rotate around one axis.
Yes, naturlich. That is the problem. The MM equipment is useless, when you rotates it in a floating mercury. Consequently, all presumed explanation is worthless if the MM interferometer CAN SHOWS fringe shifts when the interferometer not rotated (even in the surface of mercury) but more conveniently resting in a table simply and only the Earth rotates under the table.

On the grounds of Munera experiment I can prognosticate, when somebody turn MM interferometer around one arm as axis, so one can demonstrate fringe shift. As Silvertooth can demonstrate shifts with his one-route interferometer.

If it would be true, it would be fatal on relativity.


 


From: "sirius@hotmail.com" To: janos@bioch.szote.u-szeged.hu Subject: Yin Yang helix model Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 12:30 +0000
I've got some vague picture of a rotating 4-elemental particle spiralling along with a linear velocity of 'c' in the direction of its axis of rotation.

..an electron is a torus.. Orbits what? Orbits the positron?

No, in the torus, the graviton (half, or an elemental graviton) rotates as a ring (a circle). Around this circle orbits a charge particle (spiralling around graviton) creating the torus surface.

Inside the photon the situation is the same: the charge particle spiralling around graviton(half) and the other charge particle spiralling around the mirror graviton(half).

All the electron-positron orbits remain fixed in space..
Let we take an electron, free or bound just the same: it is a torus and remain fixed in space (= stable particle) because graviton-charge particle pair just closed to a ring.

There are one other frequency where the same graviton-charge particle pair can close to a ring: this is the antiproton torus.
The mirror graviton and positive charge particle pair forms proton (at the same frequency)

This is NOT the situation inside the photon. Inside the photon NOT exist electron nor positron. Photon contains the constituents only.

..while a two part graviton screws its way along the line..
Yes, and naturally draw along the charge particle pair.
..at the speed of light?
Yes, the velocity of the complex is c, the speed of light. It is much much smaller than velocity of graviton pair witout charge particles.
 
Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:04 +0000
David, thank you for questions, first of all, we need to distinguish two things:

1. torus is in the "normal" material world, only. Stable particles only toroidal, as electron, positron, proton, antiproton.
2. Gravity (gravitational push) is NOT toroidal. The cause of gravity is graviton (mirror) pairs, with helical, even line movement.

Stable particles (above list) not moved anywhere, stayed inside of atoms or exists freely eg electrons. If you not accelerates it, they normally stationary.
Photon move normally with velocity c, photon also stable, not looks like a toroid, but more or less looks yin-yang.
Graviton pairs NOT toroidal, they goes in an even line, helical path looks like DNA. The velocity is much more higher as c.
Graviton alone (not in pair) situated inside any torus as a core, moving looks like a circle, draw along with him one charge particle.

Is space densely packed with these tori?
I cannot interpret clearly this question, toruses located inside atoms as protons or electrons. Why did you think they densely packed? The density correspond to atomic or nuclear density. Inside the nucleus the density of protons and electrons (nuclear electrons !!) is much higher, in the outer space naturally smaller, hardly ever.
And how do they cause gravity?
Toruses ? The primary cause of gravity is the radiation of double gravitons (moving looks like a helix). This graviton pairs push the matter by incredible force. Everywhere.
Torus effect only secondary. Torus (a big mass of toruses ie a bigger normal mass as Earth or the Sun) absorbs the graviton pairs a little bit. So when graviton pairs goes through the Earth, coming out from bottom, it is a little bit smaller radiation compared to original graviton radiation push from above. So the difference between two force is the cause of gravity as we perceive at Earth surface.

I dont know the mechanism, how graviton can take it, how be able to push matter with this horrible force of 1.2x10^44 newton.

Im glad if you want to understand everything what I say, please take all questions what you think. (I dont know everything, naturlich)
 


From: "sirius@hotmail.com" To: janos@bioch.szote.u-szeged.hu Subject: Helical photon model Date sent: Sat, 2 May 2015 22:26 +0000

Waves can pass right through each other in opposite directions.

Which waves? Water waves? Or sound waves in the air? Waves can interfere each other, which means that opposite waves can extinguish each other, eg if air pressure fronts "collides": NOT pass right through !!
Light exhibits wave behaviour and so it's most unlikely to constitute a rotating particle in translational motion.
Why not ??
If that were so, two light rays coming from opposite directions would collide.
The constituents of light photon are NOT a dumbbell weight balls, they are energy particles. We dont know anything the behaviour of fundamental particles, we only imagines somethings what we usually perceives from macroscopic world. The fundamental particle behaviour strongly differ from macroscopic properties.

Photons can interfere each other also, NOT pass through without any effect, contrary: they have effect to each other. Could you detect what happen with single photons if its may incidentally collides ? No. Moreover the photon diameter extraordinarily small. Extraordinarily.

Also, light has a fixed speed which suggests that it is a propagation of a displacement in an elastic medium..
No !!! Mainstream imaginates only that false idea. The speed of light a bit bigger if the light fall to the Earth and the photon accelerated. And not on any account for propagation in elastic medium, Im to raise objection for this. The photon travel in a strictly even line, and not spherically. If it would propagated in an elastic medium it should propagates spherically !!! Like sound waves in air or in water. Why not propagated sound linearily (in an even line) inside water ? Or in two dimensional water waves in water surface, why not propagated water waves in an even line ? If photon would propagated spherically so the photon energy would decrease quadratic means. But only density decrease, not the photon energy.

No, there is no medium which would propagetes photon like air or water waves. The "medium" is only a radiation sea. Not propagates photon but construct it, not mediated but transport it. In an even line.

..where the speed would be fixed by the density and elastic coefficient of the medium..
No, no, no, its absolutely fals. Graviton pairs has the own velocity and if charge particles bounded, the photon particles has a slower "own" velocity. If graviton "wind" blowing (near masses) so the photon velocity changes according to direction of photon.
There is no rationale on the other hand as to why your photons would have a fixed speed.
The c is the photon own velocity, you should not give rationale, correspondingly you should not give rationale for the magnitude of elastic coefficient. Or any other coefficient. Thanks for train of thought, Janos
 


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